The eggs came from a company and not a breeder? That could be a plus. They have to have good outcomes or they won't be in business long.

I thought your incubator would only hold four. Or was that wife telling you that you had to be frugal? Your chances just went up a lot having those extras.

Green eggs. Didn't you tell me those are the eggs that are highly prized in your village?

 

The eggs came from a company and not a breeder? That could be a plus. They have to have good outcomes or they won't be in business long.

I thought your incubator would only hold four. Or was that wife telling you that you had to be frugal? Your chances just went up a lot having those extras.

Green eggs. Didn't you tell me those are the eggs that are highly prized in your village?

It was eight. I snuck the 36 egg incubator in the back door while she was not looking. After seeing some of the sellers only selling in 30 egg lots. Wife is -disappointed, in me.

This is a much better unit. Auto Turner, Humidity monitor ( not a controller), adjusts for day of incubation by adjusting temp, and stops turning after a set number of days. Modes for chicken, duck, quail, and custom.

Yeah, I bought from a company, not the chicken lady down the street. KA S Farmstay. They had a 4.7/5 star rating. All 5 and 4. 4's being due to delivery company related issues. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only one selling Isbar. Which is good, because they will remain a novelty longer, and bad because I'm uncertain about line breeding.

The eggs vary from Blue, to Greenish Blue, to tan. Depends on the individual bird. I will cull anything that does no lay blue/blugreen. I don't know for a fact they will be highly prized or not. I'm just hoping they stand out. Can't compete with the chicken lady. Too large and operation and too well established. I'm planning for wife to offer them at the same rate, but smaller quantities. Typically eggs sell in lots of 30 for 135 baht, not in dozens. 10 for 45 baht may get an impulse buy and become a novelty. Maybe the kids will like them.

Before we get to that point I need to get the chicks out of these eggs, and their butts in a nest. We will be focusing on increasing flock first, and most likely for all of the next year or so.

Wife's sister runs one of the local sundry shops. We will start there. I mean, -Wife will start there. Animal husbandry is one of the verboten trades for non citizens.

I help from the armchair.

-sterling

 

My newbie attempt at egg candling. Eggs are presumed laid Feb 9 +/-1 day. At 3 days of age I realize that there would not likely be development, but checking for cracked egg.

Using the Candler that came with my incubator. Eggs numbered from 1 - 9

1 - Shell was very opaque. Hard to see details, but yoke is present. No Bullseyes detected.
2 - Much easier to make out details. Yoke is visible and can see yoke drift as rotated. No Bullseyes detected.
3 - Yoke is visible. Dark speckles on shell. Examining in light can see spots of what appears to be egg yoke. Does not appear to be from this egg. Did not attempt to clean. No Bullseyes detected.
4 - Yoke is visible. Dark line around one end. Not a crack. Not air pocket as yoke will move to that end if tilted. Appears to be large irregular water spot not visible in light. I outlined in pencil to see if if changes over time. No Bullseyes detected.
5 - Dark - Yoke appears to be much larger in size nearly filling egg. Some speckles. No Bullseyes detected.
6 - Too opaque to make out anything. Nothing visible.
7 - Yoke is visible. No Bullseyes detected.
8 - Yoke is visible. No Bullseyes detected.
9 - Yoke is visible. No Bullseyes detected.

-sterling

 

You won't see a bullseye by candling. You can only see them by cracking the egg open. When you mentioned the bullseye my mind instantly went to "oh no, he didn't open an egg! Did he?" Then I realized no. Panic over.

Any movement you see is not a good thing. If the yolk moves when you move the egg or the albumen and air cell move, then the air cell is ruptured. Those very seldom hatch. Mark them clearly. You might have to pull them.

I don't like that dark line around egg 4. What color is it? If red that is bacteria and you need to just toss that egg.

If you can get a pic of egg four while candling we might be able to tell you if it's a problem or not.

 

Dullseye. DOH! Brain F*art! Sorry. Taking off my list of things to look for.

I will attempt pic later tonight, too light now and I don't have a room that will work for the purpose. Not a line per se. More like a clearly defined irregularly shaped splotch. Unlike the other eggs with speckles or dark spots, you can't see anything from the outside with lights. And it appears -brown? I traced the edges lightly with a pencil to see if it spread or moved. I had at first assumed that the line in #4 was the air sac. It is the only one that had anything that could have been. But then the yoke moved into it, so not knowing what I am doing, made a note and reported here.

I didn't check for Yokyo Drift on all the eggs. I think more of them showed movement, than not. I'll add that to the points to look for, and recheck them all tonight when I photograph egg #4. (Oh Boy! I get to use the good camera, tri-pod, macro lens, play with exposure settings... Yea! 🎉)

Thank you for supporting my efforts. I really appreciate it.

-sterling

 

Huh, Thailand is more restrictive than some other Eastern countries about ex-pats and the ability to do stuff. What is their thinking? To protect citizens' ability to earn a living?

Well, the lady down the street wouldn't have involved shipping. And you know her ability to raise healthy birds. There are advantages to having someone local. But there is that whole line breeding thing she's probably doing.

 

Yes, very restrictive. Without side railing the thread too much, you can go here to get a thumbnail view of the requirements. I'll only make two comments:

1] "Work" is very loosely defined. You know how "Drug Paraphernalia" or "Bomb Making Supplies" got that little old lady arrested a few years back for paperclips and household ammonia? Same here. An Expat was deported recently because he was painting the fence of his house. "No work permit"

2] I wanted to start a YouTube Channel. No money, just letting people share in the pains, and joys I found here getting settled in my new country. Nope, that's 'work' (see above). No problem says I, I'll just get a work permit as YouTubing is not on the restricted list. Unfortunately, it falls under a different category of work called 'Digital Nomad' and requires that I earn a minimum income more than I was making in the States, my 'company' or the one I am working for, must show tax filing with minimum income and assists in the millions of dollars, and that I hire two Thai citizens to work with me. "Welcome to my Channel?" Nope.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Forum Post...

The local Chicken Lady will sell 1 y/o laying hens, and unfertilized eggs only. She is not a source for hatching eggs. At least not for me, the local Farang. (What an oxymoron -the 'local foreigner'.

As we speak, the Wife is fetching three, to replace the two we lost recently. I will make update comments on that thread shortly.

-sterling

 

On that one egg it might be extra thick shell in the area that looks like a ring. That happens often with new layers that the shells can be thicker in some areas and thinner in others. Let's hope that's what that is.

I'm looking forward to see how things go with your first hatching. That the eggs have survived the shipping challenge.

I'm disappointed there can't be a Youtube Channel. It's a wonderful learning tool many times for those that will never experience what you do.

 

Plenty of people do the YouTube thing and get away with it. I'm just too much of a Boy Scout.

Egg #4 photo attached. Note, I outlined the area in pencil, but don't know how arcuate I was. I'm unsure if it has spread or not. Now that I have a photo I can compare again in a few days.

ALL Eggs had yokes that drifted fully from one end to the other.

Egg #6 is still too dark to make anything out. Not certain what a double yoker would look like. Could it be that?

Update: Wife fetched 3 additional birds today. They immediately took to the nesting boxes and one laid within an hour. Whatever the chicken lady is doping her birds with, is working. Ours seem alert, but just walk around or sit on the ground. Not in the roost, or in the nesting boxes. They have not laid since the others died. Could a snake in the nesting box have bitten the two and spooked the others?

 

That egg is so wrong in so many ways. Turn it upside down, see if the dark blob, (appears to be the yolk) to see if it ends up on the opposite end.

Something is not right with those two RIRs. You really need to examine them to see what is going on with them. You might have bad feed that is slowly poisoning them. The water might be contaminated.

There is a whole list of things that could be going wrong but without more input there's just no educated guess to be made.

 

That egg is so wrong in so many ways. Turn it upside down, see if the dark blob, (appears to be the yolk) to see if it ends up on the opposite end.

Something is not right with those two RIRs. You really need to examine them to see what is going on with them. You might have bad feed that is slowly poisoning them. The water might be contaminated.

There is a whole list of things that could be going wrong but without more input there's just no educated guess to be made.

Yes, yoke on all eggs drifts slowly to the top on when rotated.
Some 'yokes' are better defined than this one though. #4 yoke appears to have spread out a bit.

-sterling

 

If they are all doing that then all of the air cells are ruptured and chances are less than 80% that any will hatch. In all my years of hatching shipped eggs, I only had one hatch out of the multiples I rec'd with ruptured air cells.

And this probably is not the fault of company that shipped the eggs but the rough handling they rec'd in shipping.

 

Day 18 (assumed)

Incubator is located under my desk in my computer room. This allowed me to monitor and, more importantly, to provide a battery backup for the frequent power losses. I was worried what a minor power outage would do to the internal time keeping of the unit.

Candled these again last night.
All eggs except for #6 (Which is too dark for me to make out any details) show what I assume to be the yoke covering one whole side of the egg. This dark spot is covering a little less than half of the volume of the egg. If viable, I would have expected this to be larger.

Eggs are in an incubator (shown above) and I have confirmed, every other day or so, that they are being rotating.

Temp is in tolerance. No alarms unless I'm in there candling.
Humidity is 70% most of the time. Alarms Low on occasion when the water bottle empties. No High alarms as yet. Programed target is 55% - 70% depending on day so I assume in tolerance. I'm posting separately on how to better maintain correct humidity. It seems all or nothing with the set-up they provided.

Dark spot does not appear to drift to top as before. Stays anchored to the side.

I did not detect any movement from 'chick' or veining. But in truth, I'm not sure I would recognize it if I saw it.

Removing the cradles tomorrow morning. No egg rotation after tonight.

-sterling

 

Veining is obvious when its present. It's all over the inside of the shell so you not seeing any isn't a good sign.

Your beginning humidity is much too high. It should have stayed around 50% for the first 18 days and then elevated the last three.

I guess we're all waiting now to see what happens.

Oh, power outages can be tolerated. They just hatch later.

 

As for Power Outages - I was not as concerned for the health of the eggs (I new they would not cool too much in a hour or so in an insulated box), as I was for the programing of the incubator. Incubator adjusts temp, rotation, and humidity alarms according to the day. Day 1-6 temp 38.0, day 7-12 temp 37.8, etc - Stops rotating on day 19. If it resets to day one, I would worry.

One point on this unit. On the humidity alarms for Chickens, it has day 1-6 @ 60%, 7-13 @ 55%, 13-18 @ 60%, and 19-hatch @ 70%. This is higher than your stated 50%, and sort of a moot point until I can find a way to lower the humidity in the unit.

I an trying to find a solution to the humidity issue. Looking for a better water delivery method than what came with the incubator. Create a thread here to discuss this.

Using the incubator 'as is', for my first attempt. And I do not like the water control. (or lack there of). There is a tray under the crate, but not enough space to put anything like a bowl, or even a saucer as I have see discussed elsewhere.

Would a sponge or towel create slower, or faster evaporation?

Vent is fully open. Despite that the humidity hovers around 74, and never drops below 70.

I think these are a no-go. #5 & #6 are totally opaque (at least to these old eyes), but everything else is the odd shadow as in the pics above.

The ducks are laying. I'll try with one or two of them next.

-sterling

 

What is the ambient humidity in Thailand? That plays a huge roll in how much you struggle to keep the humidity where you need it.

That graph or whatever it is is wrong. Way wrong. Dang it. It shouldn't be much higher than 50% the first 18 days then raise it to 70% the last three.

I addressed the sponge question in your other post.

When I lived in TN with our humidity so high I decided to try dry incubation. That's where you don't add water all to the incubator. That meant I had to set it up outside so the AC in the house didn't dry it out. It worked. A spritz of water every day was enough to have a good hatch. This might be what you end up having to do if your humidity is high.

 

What is the ambient humidity in Thailand? That plays a huge roll in how much you struggle to keep the humidity where you need it.

That graph or whatever it is is wrong. Way wrong. Dang it. It shouldn't be much higher than 50% the first 18 days then raise it to 70% the last three.

I addressed the sponge question in your other post.

When I lived in TN with our humidity so high I decided to try dry incubation. That's where you don't add water all to the incubator. That meant I had to set it up outside so the AC in the house didn't dry it out. It worked. A spritz of water every day was enough to have a good hatch. This might be what you end up having to do if your humidity is high.

From here.

-sterling

 

If the incubator is in the house and it's not climate controlled that would be why you're struggling to get the humidity down. Even in a climate controlled house, if the indoor humidity is high, you'd struggle.

The house I'm in now is a perfect example. Even with everything shut up and the AC running the humidity can climb to 70% inside. It's why I run a dehumidifier at certain times of the year.

 

I know that when the tray runs dry, the humidity alarm goes off when the monitor dips below 40%.

It is inside. I keep it under my computer desk so as to keep plugged into the battery backup. Room AC runs only when I am writing, about half the day. We shut it off when no one is in the room.

-sterling

 

AC isn't as efficient when it comes to keeping the humidity down. That's why I have to run a dehumidifier even when using the AC.

Can you adjust the alarm down? You mentioned humidity being at 70% in the bator, that's about right for the last three days but not for the early days. So something is off. I would recommend putting your new gauge somewhere that it can pick up the room humidity to see if things are off that much.

The electronic monitoring gizmos built into incubators have been notorious for being wrong. One of the best I found and came recommended by quite a few people are those for amphibian tanks since they have to be spot on for temp and humidity.

 

AC isn't as efficient when it comes to keeping the humidity down. That's why I have to run a dehumidifier even when using the AC.

Can you adjust the alarm down? You mentioned humidity being at 70% in the bator, that's about right for the last three days but not for the early days. So something is off. I would recommend putting your new gauge somewhere that it can pick up the room humidity to see if things are off that much.

The electronic monitoring gizmos built into incubators have been notorious for being wrong. One of the best I found and came recommended by quite a few people are those for amphibian tanks since they have to be spot on for temp and humidity.

ETA is Mar 5. I will let you know readings inside and out, when they arrive.

The incubator has a custom setting, but manual/instructions are very -brief. I will try to define it after these are finished. Went with the defaults on first attempt. Do you have suggestions for humidity, tolerances, and days?

-sterling

 

The first 18 days try to keep it around 50%. Even 45% is very workable. The last three days you do want it up higher, 60 to 70%. One of the things that naturally occurs when hatching starts, is increased temps and humidity from the hatching action going on.

Ha! At least you have some sort of instructions. Even if they're gibberish. I just realized I don't have a maintenance manual for my hydraulic grooming table.

 

Might as well be non-existent. I was trying to make heads-or-tails of the rotation rate. Instead of saying something simple like, "It rotates x times per day", It says, 200sec/90min. I'm assuming they are discussing Arc Seconds, because if they are talking about time, then they are only giving how long it rotates, not the speed. We still wouldn't know if that was 1 rotation a day or 500.

Given:
60 arc sec in an arc min, 60 min in a degree = 3,600 arc sec per ° rotation.
1,440 min time in a day.

So:
200 arc sec/90 min = 2.222 arc sec per min time
2.222 * 1,440 min time day = 3200 arc sec per day
3200 arc sec/3600 arc sec per ° rotation = 0.889° per day

Less than a degree per day? Seriously!?!?! Somebody check my math. I can see it moving faster than that.

-sterling

 

Well, you really don't want me checking your math. I'm working on my first cup of coffee of the morning. Plus I have this huge issue with patience for much of anything anymore. Although I did well in algebra, I think that formula above is way above my patience scale.

It doesn't have to move fast. It just have to move to prevent the yolk from getting stuck to the side of the shell which makes it hard for peeps to hatch.

 

Yeah, but over 400 days for a full rotation is pushing it.

The whole manual is full of things like this. Don't know if it is translation issues, or just bad math.

-sterling

 

You have a point about how long one rotation would take.

My guess, it's both translation and bad math. Instructions for most everything we get these days seems to depend on the cost of the product. The higher the cost, the better the manual.

 

Hatching day was to have been yesterday. Nothing.

I'll give it two more days, just in case.

I think these are duds. I'll take outside and break open to evaluate. Pics in a few days.

-sterling

 

I'm sorry. You know I suspected something was wrong when you said the yolk and air cell moved when you moved the egg.

I suspect that woman did it purposely. You can't have all of the eggs like that without someone doing it.

 

Egg #3 hatched this evening.
Chick appears weak, but cheeps when lid is lifted.
Placed feed and water in incubator. Should feed be ground fine or will standard feed work?
Supplies for Brooder have been delayed two days, but as I understand chicks will be fine in incubators for short durations like that. Heaters, cords, etc.

 

Congratulations. I hope you get at least one more to come out. You don't want a singleton. They are very unhappy about being alone.

This far past the hatch date usually means the temp is running low. Now the question, how long to wait to see if any more hatch.

And don't worry, they're always weak when they first hatch. They work pretty hard to get out that shell.

Generally we only leave them in the incubator until they dry. If you have some sort of hanging lamp with an incandescent bulb you can pretty easily construct a brooder for it. It's what most of us use when it's not massive hatches.

 

An update. long overdue.

Two hatched from this batch of 9. I cracked open the 7 remaining after an additional week

Of the 7 unhatched:
3 appeared to be unfertilized in any way. Clear, clean yolk.
3 appeared to have partial development with some veining. Maybe a dime diameter. They stopped for some reason. Wife feels we should have continued incubation. (Thoughts?)
1 was black goo, and rotten throughout.

It's been a few weeks since hatch, and based on one having much more pronounced crest and wattles, I believe I have one boy, and one girl.

Now to keep the dogs away.

-sterling

 

My Second Effort.

I had a hatch rate of 22% with my first effort at hatching 9 eggs.

I ordered all he had for my second batch attempt. Unfortunately that was only 6 eggs. With the Bonus egg he always includes brining it up to 7. Shipping damage brought that total down to 5, as one was badly cracked, and one shattered into a mess.

The soi dogs got into the duck pen and killed everything (reported in another thread) but we took the 2 dozen or so eggs she had been sitting on, and put them in the incubator with the 5 Isbar. Temp etc. may not be ideal for ducks, but its got to be better than just leaving them sit outside.

I candled on receipt, mostly looking for cracks, and to ensure yolks were not broken during shipping, but did not repeat later. We are 10 days past expected hatch day on the Isbar, and almost 3 weeks past presumed hatch on the ducks. So far nothing has hatched. Very disappointed.

This is a 0% hatch rate for the Isbar second batch, and disregarding the ones with shipping damage, brings my total success rate down to 14%.

The company has 13 available right now, and I'm willing to give it one more shot. Ordering today but shipping only allows 11. Last try from him. I just wish I could find another source for Isbar.

-sterling

 

Third effort
I've given up.
Ordered a third batch from the only vendor selling Isbar and received 13 eggs. Of the 13 two were 'weeping' and smelled on arrival. (discarded)
Only one of the remaining hatched (about 1 week early by my novice estimation)
Based on above, I believe, at the least, that the eggs were not fresh.

That single chick pecked at the food and water first day, then would not eat (water only) and eventually died. I assume starved.

Between my ignorance, the poor vendor quality, and the dogs. I give up.

Gave up trying to hatch (try again later with a different breed and better vendor) and purchased several full-grown Rhode Islands. -=sigh=- they laid once and stopped.

Bought 6 ducklings. 1 disappeared (snake?) and 4 drowned in an inch of water one by one over a two-week period.

Wife found 4 Thai meat birds 'somewhere' and now we are feeding them as well. I'm not sure I like the idea of an unknown, possibly aggressive, possibly 'Thai Fight Cock', (she doesn't know) in my coop.

My vision of a single-breed coup is gone. She's creating a menagerie, and I'm still not getting any eggs...

I'm cursed.

Vent over. Sorry.

-sterling