What is going on??

Discussion in 'Emergencies, Illness, Meds & Cures' started by K10sal, May 16, 2020.

  1. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    Hi all. I’m a new chicken mama, and I need some help. I have a Polish who is about 4 weeks old and is not doing well. I have spent hours researching over the last few days, and I think she has wry neck. Where I’m stuck is figuring out why she has it. Is it vitamin deficiency? Head injury? Marek’s? Newcastle? How does one determine the cause? I want to help her since she’s fighting too, but I don’t want it to be for nothing - because then I feel like I’m prolonging her suffering.

    I have been feeding her can tuna in water mixed with some of her feed, some vitamin e oil (I got a bottle of the oil rather than the tablets), and some b complex (I got soft gels and am squeezing the contents into the mixture). When I can get her to eat, she definitely eats. She’s enjoying the food for sure.

    As far as symptoms, she walks backwards with her head completely turned upside down. She gets herself all tangled up. It appears as though she has seizures or tremors at times. She also takes one foot and puts it on her head. Sometimes both eyes are open, other times, she keeps one eye closed. I feel like her being contorted like that is painful, so I’ve got her swaddled like a baby so she can keep her neck in the right position. She manages to get out of her swaddle frequently.

    what symptoms would I look for to decide if it’s Marek’s or Newcastle? I’m worried about my other 8 chicks. I did separate her as soon as I saw this behavior, so she’s in a box in my room. sorry for the long post, and thank you for any help.
     
  2. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Stop the tuna, way too much salt content for her little body. Use some cooked instant oatmeal with some of her food mixed in.

    Can you post some pics? This one is presenting way past anything I've seen or heard of. Does it stop or continuous? Try holding her neck in a normal position until you can feel the spasm stop.

    Change her vitamins to B1. If it's a B deficiency it's usually Thiamine. Does your vitamin E contain selenium? That's the one to use but be careful because it can build up in the body's fat.

    If you have a vet with an open mind another thing to try is prednisone. If it's swelling in the brain from an injury it should help her a lot.
     

  3. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    robin, thanks for your reply. The b complex had a lot of thiamine, which is why I picked that one. I couldn’t find any that was just b1. The E doesn’t have selenium, but that’s why I did the tuna in water - I read that it has a lot of selenium naturally and would help with the absorption of vitamins. I’d say it’s rather continuous, but when she’s eating, I can get her to keep her head nice and straight for 3-4 minutes at a time...then she wants to look for the stars. There is a tiny spot on her cheek that is pink and messing feathers. I’m wondering if one of her buddies pecked at her because she has black spots on her cheeks? I don’t really have pictures but videos. But I haven’t figured out how to post a video on here.
     
  4. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    CB02B110-BD19-4D52-A92B-E3B201305AC0.jpeg 8847E3D7-1BD4-4AD6-8231-98BA50C2B9A8.jpeg Here are two pics I’ve got. I’ll try to get a picture of her when she gets all contorted. Her fits upset me so much that I can’t even think straight to get a picture ☹️
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2020
  5. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Have you checked for mites? That is such an odd place for the feathers to be missing, makes me wonder if that's what they went after.

    B1 can be hard to find so I understand that. But the tuna really does have to stop. It takes very little salt to start causing problems.

    Any chance a vet would help? If it's related to an injury the only way you can get some amount of control is using a steroid. I had one, she presented differently, within 24 hours of being on the pred there was a marked difference her tucking.

    Most upload videos through youtube.
     
  6. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    I’ll try to get some pred. Small town I’m in, so my vets are only really open during the week. If I go into the bigger city for vet, then I’m paying emergency vet fee. I will check for mites. I’ve not noticed anything though.
     
  7. TomC

    TomC Active Member

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    Wow! This is uncanny. Just last night, while I was sitting in a siding, I was reading some of the articles here on the forum. One of them is titled,
    Treatment Options for Stargazing
    It's on about the 5th page under the "
    Articles" tab.

    It sounds almost identical to the symptoms in the article and is caused by a B1 (
    thiamine)
    deficiency.

    Give it a read, may give you some help.

    And, by the way, Welcome to the group!!!
     
  8. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Except what the OP is describing isn't quite stargazing, the description goes beyond that. Head injuries tuck between the legs, stargazing is just as it sounds the head is thrown back.

    I don't remember if pred was tried on another bird whose behavior was similar what I remember of it was that B1 and D3 did not work. The conclusion was that the bird had a tumor somewhere. My head injury bird went on to live 14 years but she had challenges off and on through the years.
     
  9. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    Would budesonide work? I have access to that. Also a steroid.
     
  10. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    Tom, thanks for the welcome. I have watched some videos and read some posts that describe almost the same behavior. I’ll try to get a video uploaded in a bit and see if that provides insight.
     
  11. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    Here is first day
     
  12. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    I couldn't find anything that says it can be used in chickens. It also appears not to treat the same areas of the body as pred does. So even if we could come up with a dose it probably wouldn't work.
     
  13. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    Here is yesterday, day 2. And don’t make fun of my silly talk.
     
  14. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    I forgot to turn my speakers on so you're safe.

    While we're at this check her ears. Look for drainage or any build up of anything that doesn't belong. And swelling or redness.

    Also, I forgot to mention this, Kaytee Exact Hand Rearing Formula for cage birds. I can get it at Pet Smart but I usually order the five pound bag from Chewy. I still use it as a treat for my birds. They love it and it has everything she needs. You can mix the extra vitamins in it too.
     
  15. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    I just grabbed poly vi sol. Cannot find selenium or b1 at all. I will try to get over to petco and see if they have the kaytee exact.
     
  16. TomC

    TomC Active Member

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    My bad, I misread the post, I took it as throwing her head back.

    There's no fun in that.
     
  17. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tom, you did and you didn't. Her bird is behaving more extreme from anything I've ever heard of. And now we're throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

    K10, check your D3 ingredients. Chances are the selenium is in that. It's rare not to find it part of the ingredients. Selenium can be overdosed very easily so you probably won't find it by itself. About like how hard it is to find the B1 by itself.
     
  18. TomC

    TomC Active Member

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    I hope she gets to feeling better. From the videos, she seems to have a sweet personality.
     
  19. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    5C98CC91-80D7-4E58-A342-3AB475E43A3B.jpeg 7D5A88FD-0CD1-4050-ACF7-215AA42D1F75.jpeg Her ears are so teeny! It’s so hard to look at them. I have never inspected chicken ears before. Vents, yes. Ears, no. So I don’t feel like I know what looks normal. I don’t see anything in them. It looks open to me. Her right ear is harder for me to look at because that’s the side she has her head cocked to. Don’t mind my gross fingers. I’m staining my porch railings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2020
  20. K10sal

    K10sal New Member

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    273E45FC-2A47-4C58-9F8A-3DA60B28500B.jpeg F548F300-3630-4A8A-8D2E-D7FCD89E60BD.jpeg 4D751108-1B40-4523-B29C-DB2287D3DF4B.jpeg Here are labels for poly vi sol, super b complex, and vitamin e oil. I don’t see selenium anywhere in them. How else can I get her some selenium? Should I get goat paste?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2020