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Chicks With Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Marans flock and out of all the Marans I have there's this one bird that's just .... strange.. I cant call it a he or she.. cause its neither and both. So I simply call it Pat... Pat doesnt lay eggs, doesnt crow.. has hen-like tail feathers, rooster-like stature, hen-like comb and waddles, rooster-like coloration, and is just simply inbetween a rooster and a hen with out being fully one or the other. Here's a photo of some of my birds standing together in the corner of the pen.. you can see a rooster on the left and hens on the right, and dead in the center.. there's Pat..

 

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First off I have to laugh about Pat. I'm a SNL lover from way back and the joke is not lost on me.

Boy and what a photo! Hens on the right, Roo on the left and there's Pat ! Amazing. Has to be some strange genetics happening there. Kind of cool to keep around just for the novelty of Pat. Kind of like jurassic park - nature finds a way. I'm sure there is a genetic explanation for this but I don't have it. I'll bet Cogburn or buckeye would have it. Might want to PM them to have a look and give you their thoughts.
 

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Chicks With Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I did a little research myself a while back when I started to notice this little oddity of a bird. lol And I seen something described about people which seemed very similar to Pat's situation. They called it Intersexual.
 

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Yes I know about people they can be XXX or XXY or XYY (serial murderers). But chicken genetics are different than people or most animals. In the 3 genetics classes I was required to take, there was like a paragraph about chicken generics and how it's different. (I will look it up if no one else has an answer. I'm just busy with a project at the moment and don't have the time. I have a big exam I'm studying for and it's like Monday or Tuesday.)
 

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We had a silkie hen that laid for 3 years and then slowly turned in to a Rooster :rolleyes:
Body shape changed and he crowed but did not breed with the hens .
I think it is something like the birds ovaries shut down causing it to show male characteristics.
Pat is a handsome bird and a very nice photo too:)
 

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Chicks With Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Pat's never laid eggs and isnt all that old. Matter fact, Pat's around 5 months old. So are the other Marans I have. They are all hatch mates, I got the eggs from a friend here in Tennessee and hatched them. Had a lot of roosters and sold all of the extra roosters but for one and Pat, who I wasnt sure if Pat was a rooster or hen at the time lol so I thought I'd keep Pat just in case Pat was a hen. But still not seeing any hope for Pat turning into a hen or a rooster either one lol
 

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It's Pat !! I wish I could spell out that annoying little laugh/giggle like on SNL....
Good luck on "Pat" deciding which team to play for...
I've heard of that but never seen it first hand..
 

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Years ago when I bred cockateils I had a Pat. She was a pearled which is a coloration that only hens have so we gave her a girl name and waited for some eggs. She never laid any so we gave up and kept her as a pet. Awhile down the road she died suddenly so we took her in to be necropsied to see what had happened. The vet never did figure it out but he did tell us she had gonads, nothing else though just gonads. I argued with him, "But she can't! She's a hen! Male birds don't have that feather pattern!" As with all my vets he looked at me like I didn't know WTF I was talking about. Does anyone else have this problem? I have had four vets argue with me about the impossibility of genetics and all of them were dead wrong in what they were saying. It pisses me right off. Anyway, yes intersex conditions do happen in birds every now and then, just like it does in mammals, granted its slightly different because birds and mammals have slightly different reproductive organs.
 

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Yes, vets piss me off ALL the time, which is why I'm sort off walking away from clinical medicine. The medical profession as a whole is very narrow minded.

And I believe the term gonad is a generic term for sex organs of any variety (male of female). That's just an FYI.
 

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HA HA ! So is not just me , i have a rooster well we think its rooster, but it looks more like a big pardridge( sorry my french gets in the way of my spelling) , i thaught it was a her until it tried to "mate" with my other chickens, i just thaught she was weird at first but now it started to crow so it must be male, but still he doesnt have any combs ( the red part on the head) at all. or any of the tail feathers, i think one of my chickens went for a joyride with a male pardridge and there is the result, i should take a pick but crappy camera and crappy computer.
 

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Well it must have been testes because the argument was on the sex of the bird. He said it didn't have complete sexual organs just gonads. He was claiming the bird was male. I was the one disagreeing by stating it was a female-only feather pattern. She/he was fully grown so it wasn't baby feathers! Oh well, guess there's a lot of different variations out there if you are lucky enough to spot em'.
 

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I vote roo. I would love to see the legs, to see if there is spur buds, and a view of the tail feathers. Mostly the legs.
And I also am an old SNL fan, and LOVE the Pat name!
 

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Wee, even if it has gonadal tissue, one would have to do histopathology slides of the tissues to determine what type of gonads they were. And they could have offered blood or feather sexing tests to determine genetic sex if you were that interested. The whole thing was handled poorly.

Anyhow, that still applies to Pat. You can do blood or feather sexing to determine genetic sex. Generally they take a blood sample or take a blood feather and submit to Zoogen ( I think that's the company that tests.)

Let me know if you're interested and can't find a local vet to work with you.
 

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Chicks With Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To be honest this isnt a bird that's not grown into its gender yet, someone said I vote Roo - but its not a guessing game depending on age, he/she is simply neither rooster or hen. All the birds in the photo are the same age, hatched from the same clutch. The rooster to the left is crowing and the hens to the right is laying eggs. Pat's just stuck inbetween lol. And Im fine with that. I dont mind having a little odd ball, it wouldnt be the first oddity I have in my zoo of critters. XD
 

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I would say its a rooster that is just delayed a bit, give him\ her another mth to see if it crows. And IMO with its comb, I have a rooster right now with a very small comb, and I have a big fat hen that has the comb of a rooster,
 
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