Equimax overdose

Discussion in 'Parasites, Pests, & Predators' started by EmmaJane, May 21, 2020.

  1. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    Hi,
    I wormed my flock of 11 with Equimax yesterday as know there is both tapeworm and roundworm present, and I suspect gapeworm too as I notice the hen recently introduced to the flock neck-stretching, shaking her head and she sounds a like gurgly when breathing. About half of them have diarrhoea.

    I thought I had been careful with the dosage: just under 0.2ml for a 2kg hen, less for lighter. But one of my legbars is looking a bit slow and sleepy with dropping wings, and my leghorn has been seriously affected and more or less comatose. I think she will be ok as she has survived the night and now standing up with her head down, whereas yesterday out for the count. I feel terrible. Could someone confirm I calculated the dose correctly please?

    - for the above worm infestation, which seems to have overtaken the flock very quickly, what would you suggest I do the 10-day follow-up with? Equimax again but smaller dose for those two?

    - when should I move them to new pasture to avoid the cycle immediately repeating? After the second dose or now?

    - will Equimax kill the gapeworm also? After the first or second dose? A few have a quiet but throaty gurgling breathing sound. If this doesn’t go away after the second dose in ten days, would you then treat as a respiratory infection? How would I get antibiotics in the U.K. without physically getting a prescription from the vet (none seem to treat chickens around here). Which would be best? Are there any human antibiotics ie amoxicillin I could dilute and use?

    (ps I already know it is not ideal to use medication not recommended for the species ie horse wormer, but sometimes needs must and I believe the infestation was sufficiently severe and affecting the flock to a serious-enough level to warrant.)

    thanks for your help?

    e
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  2. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    I've used it in my birds many years ago. So, no worries there. But I didn't measure it, I gave them a pea sized dose.

    How did you know they had tapes and round worms? Did you have a fecal done? If you did did the vet give you an idea how heavy the load was?

    If the load was particularly heavy the sudden death of the parasites can make them feel like crap.

    How were you figuring the dose? The paste wormer could have more or less of the ingredients which would throw your numbers off.

    Then there's the new hen. Did you quarantine her before adding her to the flock?
     

  3. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I used a small syringe to dispense 0.2ml. The hen is standing up now, although still not eating, not even scrambled egg. But she’s looking better by the hour. She was near unconscious last night.
    I happened to be sitting near a chicken free-ranging when one of the hens did a dropping (the same one that has the worst cough) and it was COVERED in moving tapeworm segments. The next day there were a number of droppings with egg sacs, and then the next day I found round worms in a few droppings also . There are a lot of wild birds where they free range so I think I’ll keep them in a specific free range section without overhanging trees moving forward.
    There are no worms or segments in their droppings today - would you expect to see some?
    Quite a few of the chickens are having a little sneeze/cough and have chesty breathing, but they don’t seem down, and no runny nose or eyes. A couple are stretching their neck and gaping every now and then. Shall I see how they are in a couple of days or should I try and get a prescription remotely as there is no nearby vet that will deal with chickens.
    What should I do about the timing of moving to new pasture please? After the second dose?
    I didn’t quarantine the new hen, which was silly. I got her from the same breeder as all the others - I will know next time!
     
  4. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    If you're in the US call your state vet, ask if they can come test your birds. Tell them what you're seeing. Someone should come out to do swabs and might do NPIP testing at the same time.

    That many stretching and gaping is concerning. Do you see a bunch of mucus in the mouth of any of them that is doing that action?

    .2 of a mil shouldn't be an overdose. But like I mentioned, if there was a big overload the die off of that many parasites can make them sick and it kills some of them.

    Unless you know it's bacterial there is no sense in getting drugs for them. If it's a viral infection antibiotics won't help them.
     
  5. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    Hi,

    Im in the U.K. unfortunately...and during lockdown there definitely won’t be a vet that will come out to see domestic chickens.

    You don’t think the gaping, stretching and little coughs/sneeze may be gapeworm? No, I don’t see any mucus...there isn’t any outward sign of a cold. Just the breathing sounds and cough.
     
  6. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    If it is gape you need levamisole to remove them.

    A vet will see them or one of them at least. Someone here is from the UK and she just had one of her chickens at the vet.
     
  7. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    I think the ivermectin in the Equimax should kill the gale, without having to also use levamisole?

    Does anyone know if I change the pasture after the second dose, or how long after? Will I see the tape/round/gape worms pass in the droppings? This is so frustrating as the chickens want for nothing...they are practically a full time job and I clean them out three times a day . Can’t believe they have all the worms!!

    thanks E
     
  8. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, I looked it up. Ivermectin based wormers will not remove gapes.

    Unfortunately there isn't much you can do short of keeping them in the coop full time. All it takes is wild birds in the area to get things going again.

    I do have concerns on why this happened. And trying not to beat a dead horse, a vet is your best friend at this point. How old are these birds?
     
  9. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    I’ve found a chicken specialist vet a mere 50 miles away! So hopefully will be able to take a couple tomorrow.

    I’m concerned why it has happened all at once also...they perhaps became stressed with new birds arriving, and perhaps at the seeds in the droppings from pigeons or something. The good news is their droppings are all so much better this evening...almost all solid.

    I’m going to mow the grass on a brand new stretch with no trees, but some low hedgerow right down, and from now on keep a tight schedule on the acv, live yoghurt, greens, vitamin tonic, vet-rx etc, dust and worm three times a year with Flubenvet nuggets, keep cleaning regularly, hang the feeder etc.
     
  10. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    What are you using the Vetrx for? It really doesn't do anything.

    If your birds are on a fresh poultry feed they don't need the vitamins. Many vitamins can build up in the body causing other problems. They should be receiving all the vitamins they need in their feed.

    It is possible to love them too much.
     
  11. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know that you need a poultry specialist at this point. From what I understand of UK vets they have had good training when it comes to dealing with birds.
     
  12. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    All my ‘close’ vets said they don’t do chickens. I have a lot of animals and with only rudimentary training in chickens most vets have, I would rather research and get the opinions of experienced keepers.
    The specialists aren’t more expensive than regular vets, but they have had training specific to chickens so won’t be forced to go through unnecessary diagnostics.
    Vetrx ...I guess whatever you do and whoever you ask you get a different opinion and answer. I was being somewhat tongue in cheek with my list, but they have become overrun somehow and they’re clean, dry, and with quality feed.
     
  13. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good on you that you will make that long trip. I really honestly don't know what's going on and I feel like that's the only way you'll get better answers. Believe me, I wouldn't recommend it otherwise.

    Years ago, we won't talk about how many, I got the same thing from people. Vetrx is better than sliced bread. I don't take such claims for fact and will explore it, getting information about the ingredients. After looking at them there is just no way it's of any benefit other than to make a rooster's comb a brighter red at show time.
     
  14. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Please let us know what the vet says. Your birds' issues are odd to say the least.
     
  15. EmmaJane

    EmmaJane New Member

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    She said it may be a respiratory infection so gave me some Baytril and said to drop in a dropping sample so they could check for coccidia. I also asked they check for gapeworm. Or she said it could be viral. So basically it could be anything.
     
  16. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, you have a direction to try. If this is from the bird you brought in there's another drug to try but I've only had two sips of my coffee and my brain isn't awake yet to remember the name. And that's if you don't see improvement with the Baytril.

    Cocci can be an opportunistic organism, if the body is weak from another illness it can explode in the body so your vet has a point.

    Thanks for letting us know.
     
  17. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tiamulin is reported to knock out one of the chronic respiratory diseases chickens can get. I remembered the name and had to put it down before I forgot again.

    Mycoplasma- and Brachyspira-related diseases are what Tiamulin is good for.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
    Maryellen likes this.
  18. Maryellen

    Maryellen Well-Known Member

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    Denaguard is the other name of it that treats respiratory. However if they are all showing symptoms then your new hen was infected and now has infected your flock.
     
  19. robin416

    robin416 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tiamulin sticks in my brain because that's the drug name I was told under cover of darkness many years ago that appeared to have positive effects on mycoplasma. It was kept quiet so that people wouldn't run right out and get it when a bird sneezed and caused the bacteria to become resistant.