Joined
·
715 Posts
I have read that they are but I'm also reading that they're aren't. They look the same to me (but I'm no expert). Also, can Red Stars be buff/cream?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Are ISA browns and Red Stars the same breed?
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Joined
·
442 Posts
They are both red sexlinks, so kind of yes. But they also use different 'formulas' to get to the finished product, so kind of no.
Both should be a reddish color with white undertones. I've seen some relatively pale ones that could pass as buff, not sure about cream. Technically, though, they're a mixed color crossing.
Both should be a reddish color with white undertones. I've seen some relatively pale ones that could pass as buff, not sure about cream. Technically, though, they're a mixed color crossing.
Joined
·
442 Posts
Thought maybe I should expand on my post a bit because I kinda didn't explain, well, anything. 
Neither ISA browns nor red stars are a breed; those are just catchy names that hatcheries come up with for purposefully-bred essentially mixed breed chickens. In this case, both were bred for high egg-laying and to be able to be sexed at hatch. The pullets are red, hence red sexlink; the color red is linked to the female sex. These are created when you breed a red or gold male with the right genetics to a silver or silver-based female. The father could be anything from a Rhode Island Red to a New Hampshire to even a Gold-laced Wyandotte, and the mothers could be a number of things including Delawares, Light Sussex, Silver-laced Wyandottes, silver-based White Leghorns, etc. This is what I mean when I say ISAs and red stars are kind of the same thing, but kind of not. They could have completely different parent breeds, but turn out similar in appearance because of how those genetics work. Some big names even have parent generations that are, themselves, not a specific breed, but also a hybrid like their offspring will be, bred for a high yield of eggs. The only common factor in the parent generation is that they have the correct genes to produce sexlinked offspring so that males and females are distinct at hatch.
Something worth noting, because people often try to do this, is that the genes in red sexlinks, themselves, are incorrect for producing more red sexlinks. If you cross male and female red sexlinks, you get a big ol concoction of different genetics that is not sexable at hatch like their parents were. A true breed, when crossing a male and female of the same variety, will reliably produce offspring similar to their parents. This is also why I say that they technically are mixed-color rather than Buff or Red or Cream specifically. They can be reddish or buffish in appearance, but not genetically those colors. Crossing them with a pure Red or Buff colored bird will not make offspring that are true to either color.
Neither ISA browns nor red stars are a breed; those are just catchy names that hatcheries come up with for purposefully-bred essentially mixed breed chickens. In this case, both were bred for high egg-laying and to be able to be sexed at hatch. The pullets are red, hence red sexlink; the color red is linked to the female sex. These are created when you breed a red or gold male with the right genetics to a silver or silver-based female. The father could be anything from a Rhode Island Red to a New Hampshire to even a Gold-laced Wyandotte, and the mothers could be a number of things including Delawares, Light Sussex, Silver-laced Wyandottes, silver-based White Leghorns, etc. This is what I mean when I say ISAs and red stars are kind of the same thing, but kind of not. They could have completely different parent breeds, but turn out similar in appearance because of how those genetics work. Some big names even have parent generations that are, themselves, not a specific breed, but also a hybrid like their offspring will be, bred for a high yield of eggs. The only common factor in the parent generation is that they have the correct genes to produce sexlinked offspring so that males and females are distinct at hatch.
Something worth noting, because people often try to do this, is that the genes in red sexlinks, themselves, are incorrect for producing more red sexlinks. If you cross male and female red sexlinks, you get a big ol concoction of different genetics that is not sexable at hatch like their parents were. A true breed, when crossing a male and female of the same variety, will reliably produce offspring similar to their parents. This is also why I say that they technically are mixed-color rather than Buff or Red or Cream specifically. They can be reddish or buffish in appearance, but not genetically those colors. Crossing them with a pure Red or Buff colored bird will not make offspring that are true to either color.
Joined
·
715 Posts
Thank you for replying!
Yeah, I have a Red Star hen and she's kinda pale in color. Pretty close to buff. Buff and cream is the same thing, right?
Wow, okay. I think I got it. Thank you very much for that explanation!Thought maybe I should expand on my post a bit because I kinda didn't explain, well, anything.
Neither ISA browns nor red stars are a breed; those are just catchy names that hatcheries come up with for purposefully-bred essentially mixed breed chickens. In this case, both were bred for high egg-laying and to be able to be sexed at hatch. The pullets are red, hence red sexlink; the color red is linked to the female sex. These are created when you breed a red or gold male with the right genetics to a silver or silver-based female. The father could be anything from a Rhode Island Red to a New Hampshire to even a Gold-laced Wyandotte, and the mothers could be a number of things including Delawares, Light Sussex, Silver-laced Wyandottes, silver-based White Leghorns, etc. This is what I mean when I say ISAs and red stars are kind of the same thing, but kind of not. They could have completely different parent breeds, but turn out similar in appearance because of how those genetics work. Some big names even have parent generations that are, themselves, not a specific breed, but also a hybrid like their offspring will be, bred for a high yield of eggs. The only common factor in the parent generation is that they have the correct genes to produce sexlinked offspring so that males and females are distinct at hatch.
Something worth noting, because people often try to do this, is that the genes in red sexlinks, themselves, are incorrect for producing more red sexlinks. If you cross male and female red sexlinks, you get a big ol concoction of different genetics that is not sexable at hatch like their parents were. A true breed, when crossing a male and female of the same variety, will reliably produce offspring similar to their parents. This is also why I say that they technically are mixed-color rather than Buff or Red or Cream specifically. They can be reddish or buffish in appearance, but not genetically those colors. Crossing them with a pure Red or Buff colored bird will not make offspring that are true to either color.
What do you mean they get messed up in feed stores?
Joined
·
25,420 Posts
I don't remember what I brought home a few years ago. They were peeps for a broody to raise and I was giving them away when the hen was done raising them. When my friend came to get them he told me nope, they were something else.
Being that I was almost all bantams I had no clue.
Being that I was almost all bantams I had no clue.
Joined
·
715 Posts
Hmm. Dad got our Red Stars from Tractor supply. I honestly thought that ISA Brown was just another name for Red Star but apparently not. Dad wanted ISA Browns and all they had were Red Stars and thought him that they're the same thing. As long as they lay a fair amount of eggs, I think he'll be fine. Whoops.
Yeah, I understand. If it ain't a cat, I'm lost.
Yeah, I understand. If it ain't a cat, I'm lost.
Joined
·
442 Posts
Genetically, no. Buff is diluted Red (diluted with the gene denoted as Di), whereas cream, as in Cream Light Brown, is a cream diluter (denoted ig if I remember correctly), two completely separate genes. Technically, red sexlinks are neither, though they can look similar.
They are all red sexlinks, so one could make the claim that they're all the same thing, but each is a name for a specific formula of parent breeds that a hatchery has developed. For example, ISA browns were developed by the Institut de Sélection Animale in France (hence ISA brown; Institut de Sélection Animale). I believe their parent stock are two hybrid 'mother' and 'father' lines rather than two specific breeds. They are one of the most prolific red sexlink hybrids out there and so many hatcheries have just purchased parent stock to sell ISA browns out of rather than develop their own red sexlink hybrid. This is why ISA browns are one of the more common red sexlinks out there, but technically speaking, if the parent stock isn't from the ISA, they are not really ISA browns.
Cinnamon Queens are another red sexlink hybrid with a very specific formula for making them; their background includes Wyandottes, so they often have rose combs. The genuine CQs I've seen look very different from your typical red sexlink, but a lot of people use the name for their birds despite that they are not actual CQs.
So yeah, they are the same in that they are all a type of red sexlink, but the names technically aren't interchangeable because they have a specific formula to make them. It's kind of like Coke and Pepsi. They are both a type of cola, but the names aren't really meant to be interchangeable.
Joined
·
442 Posts
This was my experience with them as well, and why I don't get them anymore.
Sweet, personable birds, but they just don't have longevity. I think I only had one or two that beat three years of age, and all of them that died at three had complications due to their high egg production.
Joined
·
25,420 Posts
All of that is true. But it's not just the Red Stars most others bred for high production also experience problems early in life and succumb.This was my experience with them as well, and why I don't get them anymore.
Man messing around with nature.
Joined
·
335 Posts
Wow. I really don't think I can add anything here. @fuzzies seems to have hit all the major points.
And I will admit I did not know this piece.
And I will admit I did not know this piece.
Joined
·
715 Posts
Oh, okay. Thank you!
Joined
·
442 Posts
For sure, I also lost at least one hatchery Rhode Island Red and a Barred Rock to issues related to egg laying. It just seems so consistent with red sexlinks particularly.
Oh, haha, well I'm glad I could contribute well! I have a lot of base knowledge about red sexlinks particularly from researching and writing about them for another poultry site a few years back. 😄
Before I use the google search picture thing and I thought by chicken was an isa brown but he wasn’t lol
Joined
·
715 Posts
Those aren't always accurate.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
